We talk to anti-imperialist journalists Vanessa Beeley and Fiorella Isabel about Palestine, the resistance and the lack of response coming from Russia and China.
How am I the first to leave a comment about a stimulating, provocative discussion that is so brilliant and informative?
I viewed this discussion on YouTube, and there were over seventy comments there, but I don’t log into YouTube because Google’s tracking confounds my serenity.
I have multiple reactions to share. Karim, your ability to frame discussions and be on a wavelength with your guests is awesome. I think these particular guests could not ask for a better moderator. And thank you Peter, for a smattering of comments that helped to ground the discussion.
The title: “Multipolar Fantasy…” set the tone for the discussion, but I probably had an unintended reaction. With all of the minutiae about the disappointing nature of states as global actors, I think it’s worth establishing that looking for moral consistency in any state is a fool’s errand.
I applaud BettBeat for banging the drum for humanity, which holds states accountable for the inhumanity they allow to flourish, but sounding the alarm about the naïveté of your target audience sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. It doesn’t tick any intellectual boxes to bemoan states that don’t fix global problems. If their existence doesn’t necessitate the said problems, criticism feels misplaced.
I have no illusions about Russia and China, but I am inspired by their ability to survive and, in the case of China, to grow strong. I have no expectations that their private, state agendas are anything other than self-serving and largely transactional. Contributing to a stable, peaceful global environment is definitely in China’s self-interest.
With Russia particularly, I think its recent history has to be the lens through which it is viewed.
Fiorella may be giving Russia’s recent history short shrift. I believe that, as a challenge and a galvanizing threat, the proxy war may have been a big favor, an unintended gift from the neoliberals. After the near dissolution of the Russian state, with the American candidate of choice handing the administrative power over to western liberal zealots, I think the old guard, led by Putin, helped to preserve Russian sovereignty, but since he came to power, Russia has only been slowly gaining strength. Yes Russia has oligarchs, and the state appears to be wrestling with them for a coherent identity. I do believe that the unrelenting probing of Russia by the U.S. may have inoculated Russia from ever getting comfortable with an ethos of imperialism. If there are Zionists with rubles, they probably need to be more circumspect than communists. Is it naive to believe that Russia can make significant, large strides economically by leaning on Chinese capitalists to furnish the means?
I get the impatience of the panel with the lack of outrage as the specter of tragic deaths and abuses and predictable indifference screams across the globe.
When the USSR was self-identifying as a bulwark against western imperialism, its agenda was pragmatic. I think that perhaps one lesson that the Russians took from the termination of the Soviet Union was the bigger the state mantle the more certain it is to be buried by it.
That leads me to why I think anti imperialism discussions need to begin with the state of the empire. I live in the heart of the empire, and I know that it is slowly decaying. I know that the proxy war, and the deaf ear with which it engages with west Asia are helping to educate the interested public on the irredeemably baseless justifications for its existence. China is in Washington’s crosshairs for the sin of amassing wealth faster and greater than the United States of Amnesia. In this context, China by simply being, is an anti-imperial force in the world.
The American experiment, with the mingling of the government mandate to educate with advertisers’ agendas has destroyed the intellectual capacities of the vast bulk of the consumer culture. Fake news here has been the special of the day for ninety years running. The mental states of the populace are atomized clouds of unconscious dysfunction.
Is China's survival reliant upon selling drones to Saudi Arabia used to target Yemeni civilians or investing in the Zionist squatter project in the occupied territories? Just two examples of how China is effectively enabling the slaughter in Yemen and the genocide in Palestine. Is it really too much to find ways to force these powerful nations to STOP supplying the weapons to the Zionist genocidaires? https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/china-quietly-aiding-israels-settlement-enterprise-how
From the time that China adopted a capitalist mission to grow and engage with the world, I think outsized influence from its capitalist class has been a risk and a cost. There may be an internal tension that accelerates domestic growth on the one hand, and draws the country further into sordid business on the other. That is a perspective that I think will be kept hidden from external reporters until there is more world unity to the extent that the CCP feels safe to air its internal contradictions. Capitalism engenders more contradiction.
As far as finding a way to pressure China to alter its policies, I think your work, and Fiorella’s and that of a handful of writers on the ground across the globe is indispensable. The world is a caldron where standards and principles and loyalties and alliances can change in an instant. Good journalism can point to paradigm shifts before they happen, so I hope that more youths , especially not of the west, aspire to be the eyes and ears for the world.
Palestinians don't have the luxury of time, nor do the "little people" in all corners of our world that is being consumed by 'realpolitik-inhumanity". Putin recently put out a statement in which he condemns Nazism and anti-semitism, yet fails to condemn the genocide being carried out, the slaughter and incineration of children on a daily, hourly basis - carried out by the so-called semites who are, for the large part, not semites while they are ensuring the extinction of the true semites in this world. I, for one, living in the region, including Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt can safely say enough! If Zionism is not ended in every corner of the globe, we all face a very dark and dangerous future, if we face one at all. Israel has totally unmonitored nuclear capability and the Samson Doctrine which puts every single nation in the world today, friend or foe, in danger, if the existence of Israel is threatened.
Thank you Vanessa, for responding, and for your generous contribution to the podcast. I don’t disagree with anything that you said or wrote in your reply. My comments are nitpicking and not intended as fundamental disagreement.
I may be an unconscious cynic because I see the western ethos as the seed that grew into the planet’s scourge, the pillar that infects its people with a jaundiced view of life. And I endorse the point that BettBeat frequently reiterates, that it is a white, European ethos. The world exists to take and dominate and destroy, and people either get behind you, get out of your way or die. 80% of Americans self-identify as Christians. They are so full of propaganda that they are dead between the ears. This country can’t be beggared soon enough!
The lucre, the glorious dollar is the currency that purchases the erasure of Gaza, as it underwrote the destruction of Libya. My hope, my sincerest aspiration is that ‘live and let live’ becomes the global uniting idea. Zionism and its logic need to be understood, articulated and collectively dismissed as the toxin that it is. I see Russia and China in this context. They choose not to promote or adopt predatory behavior, though they may do deals that enhance it. Compared to where I live, they are exemplary.
So I value your yeoman journalism, and I will look for you in in the ether.
I love your restlessness. It’s the impetus for many illuminating and inspiring discussions. As I often argue, I think that media that seek to inform and counter the toxic narratives that pervade western consciousness, are not only marginalized by the intentional chaos and noise of bogus platforms, but the very minds that need to receive the unfiltered truth are the ones most resolved to not listen.
This may sound off the point, but I suspect that BettBeat and Sabby Sabs are two distinct podcasts that can both benefit from some cross pollination. Sabrina Salvati is a juggernaut for confronting racist arguments and policies that support and aggravate minority marginalization. She names names and goes hard at frauds and charlatans. She is a strong, vocal advocate against Zionism and for the Palestinians. I don’t know the ethnic breakdown of her subscribers, but I feel certain that she has a growing number of black Americans who trend left. She has the advantage of conservative roots, which informs her semi-didactic style of explaining what isn’t obvious to all. To me, I think her podcast has the potential to bridge the racial gap in this racist country. What I take from many of her presentations is an explanation of racism that is multilayered.
Sorry to go on so long. I can definitely see a discussion of racism from Sabrina’s perspective, and from the variant experiences of Peter and Karim. You guys use historical context more than she, but she can probably tap the idealism of her audience, if there is any, because her language can veer toward emotional.
In any case, you all agree on Palestine and Zionism and American criminality. I assume that you are preaching to different congregations. Time to network perhaps?
That may explain a vibe that I get from RBN that I don’t feel when I watch Sabby. I don’t know the origins of RBN, but I frequently get emails via Substack linking their podcasts. When I have watched, I have not been motivated to subscribe or peruse their archives (which I couldn’t do without subscribing). The graphic ID’s are spotty, often missing, and so I don’t know the name of the person whose comments I needed captioning to understand. As I understand RBN, they do public service in the economically neglected black neighborhoods in Orlando, FL. I don’t know if every member of RBN participates, but my sense was that providing basic food provisions and such while preaching the gospel of Marx and other critiques of capitalism is more idealism than functional. I was surprised to read that you collaborated with RBN specifically because they seize topical news events that are of particular interest to Black Americans, and your topics are more rooted in geopolitical injustices. I have the sense that both BretBeat and Sabby Sabs would carry a larger and more diverse following. I’m glad to learn that my comment wasn’t perceived as shallow or wacky.
Hi Panellists, Great programme and very enlightening. Do you think Russia could attack Iran if Iran retaliates in a big way to an attack by Israel. If Russia has signed an agreement with the USA that Israel must exist, plus’s the million or so Russian citizens of Israel. Is it a possibility that Iran could face war with Russia. In that case it would have little chance of survival.
It is a good question. Not sure Russia would need to get involved though. Its defence pact with Iran means it would stand back and let US and Israel get on with it. Russia does want to avoid war in a way that is not commensurate with US imperialism and Zionist expansionism and hegemony - it would definitely not come to the aid of Iran and would probably offer to mediate under UN Charter rules etc.
Thank you for your response. I was heartened by Brics and also countries that spoke up against the genocide. But now so despondent with the lot of them. Russia and China have votes on the security council but do nothing. Ireland speaks up but continues economic, academic and military ties(shipments) ties, same for Spain. And the biggest kick in the teeth, South Africa launches ICJ case but continues to supply the coal that powers the genocide.
How am I the first to leave a comment about a stimulating, provocative discussion that is so brilliant and informative?
I viewed this discussion on YouTube, and there were over seventy comments there, but I don’t log into YouTube because Google’s tracking confounds my serenity.
I have multiple reactions to share. Karim, your ability to frame discussions and be on a wavelength with your guests is awesome. I think these particular guests could not ask for a better moderator. And thank you Peter, for a smattering of comments that helped to ground the discussion.
The title: “Multipolar Fantasy…” set the tone for the discussion, but I probably had an unintended reaction. With all of the minutiae about the disappointing nature of states as global actors, I think it’s worth establishing that looking for moral consistency in any state is a fool’s errand.
I applaud BettBeat for banging the drum for humanity, which holds states accountable for the inhumanity they allow to flourish, but sounding the alarm about the naïveté of your target audience sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. It doesn’t tick any intellectual boxes to bemoan states that don’t fix global problems. If their existence doesn’t necessitate the said problems, criticism feels misplaced.
I have no illusions about Russia and China, but I am inspired by their ability to survive and, in the case of China, to grow strong. I have no expectations that their private, state agendas are anything other than self-serving and largely transactional. Contributing to a stable, peaceful global environment is definitely in China’s self-interest.
With Russia particularly, I think its recent history has to be the lens through which it is viewed.
Fiorella may be giving Russia’s recent history short shrift. I believe that, as a challenge and a galvanizing threat, the proxy war may have been a big favor, an unintended gift from the neoliberals. After the near dissolution of the Russian state, with the American candidate of choice handing the administrative power over to western liberal zealots, I think the old guard, led by Putin, helped to preserve Russian sovereignty, but since he came to power, Russia has only been slowly gaining strength. Yes Russia has oligarchs, and the state appears to be wrestling with them for a coherent identity. I do believe that the unrelenting probing of Russia by the U.S. may have inoculated Russia from ever getting comfortable with an ethos of imperialism. If there are Zionists with rubles, they probably need to be more circumspect than communists. Is it naive to believe that Russia can make significant, large strides economically by leaning on Chinese capitalists to furnish the means?
I get the impatience of the panel with the lack of outrage as the specter of tragic deaths and abuses and predictable indifference screams across the globe.
When the USSR was self-identifying as a bulwark against western imperialism, its agenda was pragmatic. I think that perhaps one lesson that the Russians took from the termination of the Soviet Union was the bigger the state mantle the more certain it is to be buried by it.
That leads me to why I think anti imperialism discussions need to begin with the state of the empire. I live in the heart of the empire, and I know that it is slowly decaying. I know that the proxy war, and the deaf ear with which it engages with west Asia are helping to educate the interested public on the irredeemably baseless justifications for its existence. China is in Washington’s crosshairs for the sin of amassing wealth faster and greater than the United States of Amnesia. In this context, China by simply being, is an anti-imperial force in the world.
The American experiment, with the mingling of the government mandate to educate with advertisers’ agendas has destroyed the intellectual capacities of the vast bulk of the consumer culture. Fake news here has been the special of the day for ninety years running. The mental states of the populace are atomized clouds of unconscious dysfunction.
Is China's survival reliant upon selling drones to Saudi Arabia used to target Yemeni civilians or investing in the Zionist squatter project in the occupied territories? Just two examples of how China is effectively enabling the slaughter in Yemen and the genocide in Palestine. Is it really too much to find ways to force these powerful nations to STOP supplying the weapons to the Zionist genocidaires? https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/china-quietly-aiding-israels-settlement-enterprise-how
From the time that China adopted a capitalist mission to grow and engage with the world, I think outsized influence from its capitalist class has been a risk and a cost. There may be an internal tension that accelerates domestic growth on the one hand, and draws the country further into sordid business on the other. That is a perspective that I think will be kept hidden from external reporters until there is more world unity to the extent that the CCP feels safe to air its internal contradictions. Capitalism engenders more contradiction.
As far as finding a way to pressure China to alter its policies, I think your work, and Fiorella’s and that of a handful of writers on the ground across the globe is indispensable. The world is a caldron where standards and principles and loyalties and alliances can change in an instant. Good journalism can point to paradigm shifts before they happen, so I hope that more youths , especially not of the west, aspire to be the eyes and ears for the world.
Palestinians don't have the luxury of time, nor do the "little people" in all corners of our world that is being consumed by 'realpolitik-inhumanity". Putin recently put out a statement in which he condemns Nazism and anti-semitism, yet fails to condemn the genocide being carried out, the slaughter and incineration of children on a daily, hourly basis - carried out by the so-called semites who are, for the large part, not semites while they are ensuring the extinction of the true semites in this world. I, for one, living in the region, including Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt can safely say enough! If Zionism is not ended in every corner of the globe, we all face a very dark and dangerous future, if we face one at all. Israel has totally unmonitored nuclear capability and the Samson Doctrine which puts every single nation in the world today, friend or foe, in danger, if the existence of Israel is threatened.
Thank you Vanessa, for responding, and for your generous contribution to the podcast. I don’t disagree with anything that you said or wrote in your reply. My comments are nitpicking and not intended as fundamental disagreement.
I may be an unconscious cynic because I see the western ethos as the seed that grew into the planet’s scourge, the pillar that infects its people with a jaundiced view of life. And I endorse the point that BettBeat frequently reiterates, that it is a white, European ethos. The world exists to take and dominate and destroy, and people either get behind you, get out of your way or die. 80% of Americans self-identify as Christians. They are so full of propaganda that they are dead between the ears. This country can’t be beggared soon enough!
The lucre, the glorious dollar is the currency that purchases the erasure of Gaza, as it underwrote the destruction of Libya. My hope, my sincerest aspiration is that ‘live and let live’ becomes the global uniting idea. Zionism and its logic need to be understood, articulated and collectively dismissed as the toxin that it is. I see Russia and China in this context. They choose not to promote or adopt predatory behavior, though they may do deals that enhance it. Compared to where I live, they are exemplary.
So I value your yeoman journalism, and I will look for you in in the ether.
I hear you, but Palestinians have no time. That makes me very restless.
I love your restlessness. It’s the impetus for many illuminating and inspiring discussions. As I often argue, I think that media that seek to inform and counter the toxic narratives that pervade western consciousness, are not only marginalized by the intentional chaos and noise of bogus platforms, but the very minds that need to receive the unfiltered truth are the ones most resolved to not listen.
This may sound off the point, but I suspect that BettBeat and Sabby Sabs are two distinct podcasts that can both benefit from some cross pollination. Sabrina Salvati is a juggernaut for confronting racist arguments and policies that support and aggravate minority marginalization. She names names and goes hard at frauds and charlatans. She is a strong, vocal advocate against Zionism and for the Palestinians. I don’t know the ethnic breakdown of her subscribers, but I feel certain that she has a growing number of black Americans who trend left. She has the advantage of conservative roots, which informs her semi-didactic style of explaining what isn’t obvious to all. To me, I think her podcast has the potential to bridge the racial gap in this racist country. What I take from many of her presentations is an explanation of racism that is multilayered.
Sorry to go on so long. I can definitely see a discussion of racism from Sabrina’s perspective, and from the variant experiences of Peter and Karim. You guys use historical context more than she, but she can probably tap the idealism of her audience, if there is any, because her language can veer toward emotional.
In any case, you all agree on Palestine and Zionism and American criminality. I assume that you are preaching to different congregations. Time to network perhaps?
We were on Sabby's show back in the day when we were regulars on RBN as well.
Recently Nick contacted me to collaborate again. I said 'sure'.
Did not hear from him since, haha.
That may explain a vibe that I get from RBN that I don’t feel when I watch Sabby. I don’t know the origins of RBN, but I frequently get emails via Substack linking their podcasts. When I have watched, I have not been motivated to subscribe or peruse their archives (which I couldn’t do without subscribing). The graphic ID’s are spotty, often missing, and so I don’t know the name of the person whose comments I needed captioning to understand. As I understand RBN, they do public service in the economically neglected black neighborhoods in Orlando, FL. I don’t know if every member of RBN participates, but my sense was that providing basic food provisions and such while preaching the gospel of Marx and other critiques of capitalism is more idealism than functional. I was surprised to read that you collaborated with RBN specifically because they seize topical news events that are of particular interest to Black Americans, and your topics are more rooted in geopolitical injustices. I have the sense that both BretBeat and Sabby Sabs would carry a larger and more diverse following. I’m glad to learn that my comment wasn’t perceived as shallow or wacky.
Hi Panellists, Great programme and very enlightening. Do you think Russia could attack Iran if Iran retaliates in a big way to an attack by Israel. If Russia has signed an agreement with the USA that Israel must exist, plus’s the million or so Russian citizens of Israel. Is it a possibility that Iran could face war with Russia. In that case it would have little chance of survival.
Good question, no idea.
It is a good question. Not sure Russia would need to get involved though. Its defence pact with Iran means it would stand back and let US and Israel get on with it. Russia does want to avoid war in a way that is not commensurate with US imperialism and Zionist expansionism and hegemony - it would definitely not come to the aid of Iran and would probably offer to mediate under UN Charter rules etc.
Thank you for your response. I was heartened by Brics and also countries that spoke up against the genocide. But now so despondent with the lot of them. Russia and China have votes on the security council but do nothing. Ireland speaks up but continues economic, academic and military ties(shipments) ties, same for Spain. And the biggest kick in the teeth, South Africa launches ICJ case but continues to supply the coal that powers the genocide.